Point counter point church tax excempt

[buckeye]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/suneditorials/la-oew-lynn-stanley23-2008sep23,0,7436695.story


Why don't churches pay taxes?
Erik Stanley says the power to tax enables the government to destroy the
free exercise of religion. Barry Lynn says that it isn't unreasonable for
organizations that pay no taxes to accept some federal oversight.
September 23, 2008


Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in the first place?
Wouldn't it be a better approach to deny the tax exemption to all churches?
Previously, Stanley and Lynn debated whether federal tax law chills free
speech in churches.

Hands off our churches, IRS
Point: Erik Stanley

Tax exemption is a privilege, not a right
Counterpoint: Barry W. Lynn

***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************

[Peter Franks]

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.

The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today is: Why should any
organization be tax exempt in the first place?

Once that question is answered, if there are any that should be tax
exempt, then we can better discuss church tax exempt status.

[Jack]

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today is: Why should any
organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service with the would-be
tax money than the government can.

Post by Peter Franks
Once that question is answered, if there are any that
should be tax exempt, then we can better discuss church
tax exempt status.

The soup kitchens, distaster relief, etc done by churches should be tax
exempt. The stained glass windows and gilded crosses should be subject to
tax like any luxury.

[Peter Franks]

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today is: Why should any
organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service with the would-be
tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/ organization.

[Jack]

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
Why should any organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service
with the would-be tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/ organization.

Well, it's hard to privatize, say, highway construction--not enough
opportunity for competition, how are highways to compete with each other?

[Peter Franks]

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
Why should any organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service
with the would-be tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/ organization.

Well, it's hard to privatize, say, highway construction--not enough
opportunity for competition, how are highways to compete with each other?

So, are you saying that government-controlled highway construction
provides more of a service than private construction could?

[N***@Click.com]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:29:55 -0700, Peter Franks

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack
Well, it's hard to privatize, say, highway construction--not enough
opportunity for competition, how are highways to compete with each other?

So, are you saying that government-controlled highway construction
provides more of a service than private construction could?

Government does't build highways, Franks

No one advocates government building highways

What we say, is that when :PUBLIC MONEY is expended, it
is regulatable, accountable, and NOT done for profit.

When PROFIT is the primary motivation for things that
societies need, then the public good is secondary.

WE build highways with OUR money

WE use those highways and maintain them with OUR money

PROFIT is not a consideration----

When a private corporaton builds a highway, WE pay lots
of money to oversee it, (inspectors, etc) then we pay
through our ass to use that highway at an inflated
price over a lifetime.

[Alex W.]

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt
in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today
Why should any organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service
with the would-be tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/
organization.

Well, it's hard to privatize, say, highway
construction--not enough opportunity for competition, how
are highways to compete with each other?

So, are you saying that government-controlled highway
construction provides more of a service than private
construction could?

Government-funded and -directed interstate road network is
arguably the single most profitable enterprise every
undertaken by the American government, and possibly the
single most profitable venture in American history.

[N***@Click.com]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:28:54 +0100, "Alex W."

Post by Alex W.

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt
in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today
Why should any organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service
with the would-be tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/
organization.

Well, it's hard to privatize, say, highway
construction--not enough opportunity for competition, how
are highways to compete with each other?

So, are you saying that government-controlled highway
construction provides more of a service than private
construction could?

Government-funded and -directed interstate road network is
arguably the single most profitable enterprise every
undertaken by the American government, and possibly the
single most profitable venture in American history.

Most important was the fact that it was not done out of
greed, but to serve the nation.

Moving goods and services across America to make it a
better place, as opposed to building something to
profit from is worlds apart.

[Peter Franks]

Post by N***@Click.com
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:28:54 +0100, "Alex W."

Post by Alex W.

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt
in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today
Why should any organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service
with the would-be tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/
organization.

Well, it's hard to privatize, say, highway
construction--not enough opportunity for competition, how
are highways to compete with each other?

So, are you saying that government-controlled highway
construction provides more of a service than private
construction could?

Government-funded and -directed interstate road network is
arguably the single most profitable enterprise every
undertaken by the American government, and possibly the
single most profitable venture in American history.

Most important was the fact that it was not done out of
greed, but to serve the nation.
Moving goods and services across America to make it a
better place, as opposed to building something to
profit from is worlds apart.

Actually, the highway system was developed for military purposes.

[N***@Click.com]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:48:24 -0700, Peter Franks

Post by Peter Franks

Post by N***@Click.com
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:28:54 +0100, "Alex W."

Post by Alex W.

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt
in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today
Why should any organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service
with the would-be tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/
organization.

Well, it's hard to privatize, say, highway
construction--not enough opportunity for competition, how
are highways to compete with each other?

So, are you saying that government-controlled highway
construction provides more of a service than private
construction could?

Government-funded and -directed interstate road network is
arguably the single most profitable enterprise every
undertaken by the American government, and possibly the
single most profitable venture in American history.

Most important was the fact that it was not done out of
greed, but to serve the nation.
Moving goods and services across America to make it a
better place, as opposed to building something to
profit from is worlds apart.

Actually, the highway system was developed for military purposes.

But not for profit, Franks.

The "profit" was the elevation of society, not lining
the pockets of the wealth class.

[Peter Franks]

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today is: Why should any
organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service with the would-be
tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/ organization.

[RhymeCon]

Post by Peter Franks

Post by Jack

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye
Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in
the first place?

Wrong question to be asking.
The more appropriate (prefatory) question for today is: Why should any
organization be tax exempt in the first
place?

Because the organization is providing more of a service with the would-be
tax money than the government can.

If true, I think that point applies to /any/ organization.

Post by Jack
:|. . . but churches
|also get the shaft by not being eligibile to sign the (h) election

Sign the election?

Miscomunication. 2 Different definitions of the word "election." It's
commonly used in IRS news to mean "electing (that is choosing) to sign
sub Par. (h)" which greatly relaxes the strictures against a 501(c)3
lobbying. The IRS form is entitled "Form 5768 Election/Revocation of
Election by an Eligible Section 502(c)(3) Organization to make limited
expenditures to influence legislation.

Post by Peter Franks
Individual members of a church have all the voting rights as any other
American who is eligible to vote.
Employees of a church including the minister have all the voting rights as
any other American who is eligible to vote.
You have a hard time distinguishing between church and the individuals who
are employees and or members of that church.

Post by Jack
:|which can give other 501(c)3's (such as Americans United) the right to
:|lobby, big time, but not churches.

Lobby?

Americans United have unquestionably have signed election (h) since
lobbying is one of their rasons d' etat (or however the French spell
it).

RhymeCon

< rhymecon.tripod.com/ >

[buckeye]

:|
:|Americans United have unquestionably have signed election (h) since
:|lobbying is one of their rasons d' etat (or however the French spell
:|it).

Any post you post regardign AU will alwasy be suspect since you freely
claim to be anti AU.
Any post you post regarding church state separation will be suspect since
you freely acknowledge being anti church state separation in on both topics
church state separation and AU you have been caught posting inaccurate
information, propaganda and lies.

***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************

[buckeye]

:|> Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in the first place?
:|
:|Wrong question to be asking.
:|

So you say.


The notion of tax exemption for church property is an old one. Genesis
47:26 records Pharaoh exempting the priests’ land from taxation, and Ezra
7:14 indicates that none of the priests, Levites, singers, porters or
ministers of the house of God were to be charged tax, toll or custom. In
the days of Roman Emperor Constantine, church buildings and the land
surrounding them were exempt. Centuries later, European countries continued
the tradition of exemption, albeit because the church frequently controlled
the state.

In the U.S., property tax exemption for churches began in colonial days and
continued with the birth of the new nation. In 1802, for instance, the
Seventh Congress specifically exempted religious bodies from real estate
taxes. On the state level, specific exemptions from property taxes for
churches were established in Virginia in 1777, New York in 1799, and the
city of Washington in 1802. "The exemptions [for churches have continued
uninterrupted to the present day," Justice William 3. Brennan has said.
‘They are in force in all 50 states" (quoted by Leo Pfeffer in "The Special
Constitutional Status of Religion," Taxation and the Free Exercise of
Religion, edited by John Baker [Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs,
1978], p. 711).


***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************

[Peter Franks]

Post by buckeye

:|> Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in the first place?
:|
:|Wrong question to be asking.
:|

So you say.

Yes, so I say.

I see that you aren't interested in a rational and orderly discussion.
Have fun with your one-sided propaganda 'discussions' with the
feeble-minded that swarm to your posts...

[N***@Click.com]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 11:35:29 -0700, Peter Franks

Post by Peter Franks

Post by buckeye

:|> Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in the first place?
:|
:|Wrong question to be asking.
:|

So you say.

Yes, so I say.
I see that you aren't interested in a rational and orderly discussion.
Have fun with your one-sided propaganda 'discussions' with the
feeble-minded that swarm to your posts...

Franks, you're the one who tries to set up strawmen
arguments, based on your silly theories and conclusions
about constitutiobnal law

ALL your crap is "belief" in something, or someway the
law is wrong, or how it "should be" (according to you)

Then you expect "argument"

If you don't see how stupid that kind of game is, then
go pout in some other place.

[buckeye]

:|>
:|>> :|> Today's question: Why should churches be tax exempt in the first place?
:|>> :|
:|>> :|Wrong question to be asking.
:|>> :|
:|>
:|>
:|> So you say.
:|
:|Yes, so I say.
:|
:|I see that you aren't interested in a rational and orderly discussion.
:|Have fun with your one-sided propaganda 'discussions' with the
:|feeble-minded that swarm to your posts...

Hahaha, you don't see a damn thing except a projection of your own closed
minded bias.

Rational and ordely discussion. I have never seen such from you. I see you
whine, belly ache and bawl becaseu things aren't the way you think they
should be based on your inaccrate viewpoint on Con Law, etc. I see you
get spanked on a regular basis by a couple people. I greatly suspect that
one of those people may very well be an attorney, which I seriouly doubt
you are.

So actual historical facts are to you propaganda, huh? No surprise there.


I am never interested in anything you have to say which is why I seldom
read anything you say.

I do enjoy reading what others say to you as they spank you though
I skip over your comments and just read their replies to you.

***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************

[buckeye]

:|> >> Erik Stanley says the power to tax enables the
:|> >> government to destroy the free exercise of religion.
:|>
:|> > By that line of reasoning, we shouldn't tax the media
:|> > because it enables the government to destroy the freedom
:|> > of the press.
:|>
:|> > Anyone can say anything from the pulpit; they just can't
:|> > do it on the taxpayers' nickel.
:|>
:|> If a church paid taxes, they wouldn't have to censor political speech at
:|> all.
:|
:|Holy cow...I actually agree with Jack! If churches were taxed, they'd
:|start whining about how they should have even *more* influence in
:|government, now that they're helping to pay for it. They sure are a
:|tempting target, but I think it'll lead to more trouble.
:|

The notion of tax exemption for church property is an old one. Genesis
47:26 records Pharaoh exempting the priests’ land from taxation, and Ezra
7:14 indicates that none of the priests, Levites, singers, porters or
ministers of the house of God were to be charged tax, toll or custom. In
the days of Roman Emperor Constantine, church buildings and the land
surrounding them were exempt. Centuries later, European countries continued
the tradition of exemption, albeit because the church frequently controlled
the state.

In the U.S., property tax exemption for churches began in colonial days and
continued with the birth of the new nation. In 1802, for instance, the
Seventh Congress specifically exempted religious bodies from real estate
taxes. On the state level, specific exemptions from property taxes for
churches were established in Virginia in 1777, New York in 1799, and the
city of Washington in 1802. "The exemptions [for churches have continued
uninterrupted to the present day," Justice William 3. Brennan has said.
‘They are in force in all 50 states" (quoted by Leo Pfeffer in "The Special
Constitutional Status of Religion," Taxation and the Free Exercise of
Religion, edited by John Baker [Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs,
1978], p. 711).

***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************

[buckeye]

:|. . . but churches
:|also get the shaft by not being eligibile to sign the (h) election

Sign the election?

Individual members of a church have all the voting rights as any other
American who is eligible to vote.
Employees of a church including the minister have all the voting rights as
any other American who is eligible to vote.

You have a hard time distinguishing between church and the individuals who
are employees and or members of that church.

:|which can give other 501(c)3's (such as Americans United) the right to
:|lobby, big time, but not churches.

Lobby?

***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************

[buckeye]

:|> >> Erik Stanley says the power to tax enables the
:|> >> government to destroy the free exercise of religion.
:|>
:|> > By that line of reasoning, we shouldn't tax the media
:|> > because it enables the government to destroy the freedom
:|> > of the press.
:|>
:|> > Anyone can say anything from the pulpit; they just can't
:|> > do it on the taxpayers' nickel.
:|>
:|> If a church paid taxes, they wouldn't have to censor political speech at
:|> all.
:|
:|Holy cow...I actually agree with Jack! If churches were taxed, they'd
:|start whining about how they should have even *more* influence in
:|government, now that they're helping to pay for it. They sure are a
:|tempting target, but I think it'll lead to more trouble.

Once upon a time in many if not most western countries church and state
were pretty much one and the same,

Governments tend to frown upon the idea of taxing itself. Thus churches
were not taxed.

Keeping tax exempt status for churches fits the principle of church state

***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************