Discussion:
David Barton: America’s Greatest Historian
(too old to reply)
buckeye
2008-10-24 09:34:19 UTC
Permalink
David Barton: America’s Greatest Historian
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/david-barton-america%E2%80%99s-greatest-historian

By Kyle | October 20, 2008 - 2:04pm

I mentioned the return of the Texas Restoration Project a few months ago
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/return-restoration-project
and then promptly forgot about it. Fortunately, the folks at Talk 2 Action
have a better memory than I do and actually attended the event and provide
an inside report.

Back when he was running in the GOP primary, Mike Hucakbee praised
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/will-david-barton-be-huck%E2%80%99s-secretary-education
right-wing pseudo-historian David Barton as perhaps "the greatest living
historian on the spiritual nature of America's early days." But it seems
that, since dropping out, his opinion of Barton has only increased because
he is now calling him the "single best historian in America today":
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/10/11/152047/08

********************************************************************************
" According to candidate Mike Huckabee, history revisionist David Barton
is the best historian our country has to offer the nation. Barton's best
seller, The Myth of Separation of Church and State, violates the basic
tenets of the Baptist faith Huckabee was ordained into and is still a
member. This view by Huckabee about Barton was uttered at the Texas
Restoration Project meeting in Austin, Texas, October 9-10th. Helping to
host and speak at the event were Barton, Huckabee and Governor Perry - the
state GOP official. On a first-to-call basis, the pastors of the state's
churches, as well as their wives, were invited to come and stay free of
charge in a $250/night Hilton Hotel room. Over 1,000 showed up, and it was
announced that several hundred more wanted to attend, but could not because
there was no room for them. Perry sits atop a state platform that wants to
pull the nation out of the U.N., abolish the U.S. Department of Education,
appeal minimum wage and do away with Social Security. Not to mention the
platform affirms giving state money to religious schools and wants to
dispel the myth of separation of church and state.

…

Huckabee and good buddy David Barton were up next, and between sessions
provided photo opts for admiring pastors. Huckabee said this was a
spiritual, not a political meeting, and he preached to the crowd. In spite
of the get out the vote drive and lamenting of the false concept of
separation of church and state, the mixture of pulpit and ballot continued
… Huckabee introduced his friend David Barton as a man God raised up for
the moment. Mike knew of no other man in the country having such a great
impact on the land.

Next, Barton did his Christian-nation thing and stated the Bible had
something to say about minimum wage and estate taxes. Evidently, that meant
the text was against them both. A common religious right position in voter
guides is that minimum wage is immoral. Barton told several stories of
heroic Revolutionary War pastors who left the pulpit and led the men of the
church into killing English troops. He lamented that this is what is needed
today to restore the nation: That is, motivated and active pastors who lead
out. Barton then said that separation of church and state, which he stated
- is not in the Constitution - and only applies to the state interference
in the church - a common religious right position.

…

Voter guides from Barton's organization were placed at the tables where
we sat. There was a sign-up sheet to list name, email and church
information. Morning speakers reminded us that the glory of God has been
lost in the nation, and the Bible and prayer have been expelled from
schools. The key question was what the church would do about these things.
Barton proceeded to defend his position that the two key issues of the
election centered around abortion and gay rights. He said the Bible taught
that these were the key priority issues and poverty, environment, justice,
civil rights and the prospect of an unjust war all sat as minor ethical
issues compared to the other two. He explained that in the past few
elections, laws have been enacted by Christians to limit abortions. That
was - he admitted - until the 2006 elections. He conceded pro-life forces
lost ground. His conclusion was that a get out the vote effort in 2008
could reverse this. David stated that what a person believed about abortion
defined how one would vote regarding all other legislative issues. Barton
reminded the group that judicial appointments will define our culture. He
then explained to the pastors that for the past 50 years government has
told pastors what to say in the pulpit. The Texan then complained that the
government did a terribly inefficient job of helping the poor. It would
better for the churches to hand out this money and do drug and prison
rehab. He restated, "The church has got to be involved in the election."

**************************************************************************
We weren’t there so obviously we don’t know exactly what Barton’s
presentation was like, but if you want to get a sense of how Barton
typically uses his biased history of America to promote the Religious
Right’s political and electoral agenda, you can watch him do so here.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/david-barton-work


***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
PseudoCyAntz
2008-10-25 08:44:40 UTC
Permalink
buckeye <***@nospam.net> wrote in news:***@4ax.com:

Buckeye, this is off-thread, but you might enjoy it.

I ran into this recently in the Jefferson (ME). TJ expounding upon
the fanaticism of Presbyterianism, the Blashphemy of Calvinism, and
Richmond's womenfolk being lustfully caught up in night prayer parties
with Protestant priests, along with some pussy-whipped husbands.

The Tyranny of Trinitarianism
and
The Faith of Our Con.Founders

--------------[
The atmosphere of our country is unquestionably charged with
a threatening cloud of fanaticism, lighter in some parts;
denser in others, but too heavy in all. I had no idea,
however, that in Pennsylvania, the cradle of toleration and
freedom of religion, it could have arisen to the height you
describe. This must be owing to the growth of
Presbyterianism. The blasphemy and absurdity of the five
points of Calvin, and the impossibility of defending them,
render their advocates impatient of reasoning, irritable,
and prone to denunciation. In Boston, however, and its
neighborhood, Unitarianism has advanced to so great
strength, as now to humble this haughtiest of all religious
sects; insomuch, that they condescend to interchange with
them and the other sects, the civilities of preaching freely
and frequently in each others' meeting-houses. In Rhode
Island, on the other hand, no sectarian preacher will permit
an Unitarian to pollute his desk. In our Richmond there is
much fanaticism, but chiefly among the women. They have
their night meetings and praying parties, where, attended by
their priests, and sometimes by a henpecked husband, they
pour forth the effusions of their love to Jesus, in terms as
amatory and carnal, as their modesty would permit them to
use to a mere earthly lover. In our village of
Charlottesville, there is a good degree of religion, with a
small spice only of fanaticism. We have four sects, but
without either church or meeting-house. The court-house is
the common temple, one Sunday in the month to each. Here,
Episcopalian and Presbyterian, Methodist and Baptist, meet
together, join in hymning their Maker, listen with attention
and devotion to each others' preachers, and all mix in
society with perfect harmony. It is not so in the districts
where Presbyterianism prevails undividedly. Their ambition
and tyranny would tolerate no rival if they had power.
Systematical in grasping at an ascendency over all other
sects, they aim, like the Jesuits, at engrossing the
education of the country, are hostile to every institution
which they do not direct, and jealous at seeing others begin
to attend at all to that object.

Thomas Jefferson
Doctor Thomas Cooper, November 2, 1822
Jefferson ME; Volume XV; pp 403-406
Direct Google Books link to the page:
<http://tinyurl.com/5e5tss>
]--------------
buckeye
2008-10-26 10:00:19 UTC
Permalink
:|
:|Buckeye, this is off-thread, but you might enjoy it.
:|
:|I ran into this recently in the Jefferson (ME). TJ expounding upon
:|the fanaticism of Presbyterianism, the Blashphemy of Calvinism, and
:|Richmond's womenfolk being lustfully caught up in night prayer parties
:|with Protestant priests, along with some pussy-whipped husbands.
:|
:|The Tyranny of Trinitarianism
:|and
:|The Faith of Our Con.Founders
:|
:|--------------[
:| The atmosphere of our country is unquestionably charged with
:| a threatening cloud of fanaticism, lighter in some parts;
:| denser in others, but too heavy in all. I had no idea,
:| however, that in Pennsylvania, the cradle of toleration and
:| freedom of religion, it could have arisen to the height you
:| describe. This must be owing to the growth of
:| Presbyterianism. The blasphemy and absurdity of the five
:| points of Calvin, and the impossibility of defending them,
:| render their advocates impatient of reasoning, irritable,
:| and prone to denunciation. In Boston, however, and its
:| neighborhood, Unitarianism has advanced to so great
:| strength, as now to humble this haughtiest of all religious
:| sects; insomuch, that they condescend to interchange with
:| them and the other sects, the civilities of preaching freely
:| and frequently in each others' meeting-houses. In Rhode
:| Island, on the other hand, no sectarian preacher will permit
:| an Unitarian to pollute his desk. In our Richmond there is
:| much fanaticism, but chiefly among the women. They have
:| their night meetings and praying parties, where, attended by
:| their priests, and sometimes by a henpecked husband, they
:| pour forth the effusions of their love to Jesus, in terms as
:| amatory and carnal, as their modesty would permit them to
:| use to a mere earthly lover. In our village of
:| Charlottesville, there is a good degree of religion, with a
:| small spice only of fanaticism. We have four sects, but
:| without either church or meeting-house. The court-house is
:| the common temple, one Sunday in the month to each. Here,
:| Episcopalian and Presbyterian, Methodist and Baptist, meet
:| together, join in hymning their Maker, listen with attention
:| and devotion to each others' preachers, and all mix in
:| society with perfect harmony. It is not so in the districts
:| where Presbyterianism prevails undividedly. Their ambition
:| and tyranny would tolerate no rival if they had power.
:| Systematical in grasping at an ascendency over all other
:| sects, they aim, like the Jesuits, at engrossing the
:| education of the country, are hostile to every institution
:| which they do not direct, and jealous at seeing others begin
:| to attend at all to that object.
:|
:| Thomas Jefferson
:| Doctor Thomas Cooper, November 2, 1822
:| Jefferson ME; Volume XV; pp 403-406
:| <http://tinyurl.com/5e5tss>
:|]--------------
Thanks.
I will check out the link, I hope the letter from Cooper he is replying to
is also there. Otherwise I will have to try and find it. It will be
interesting to see what Cooper described about conditions in Pa that
triggered this response.


Again thanks.


***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:

The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm

American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm

The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html

[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]

HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/

***************************************************************
. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote

"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"

That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.

It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.

*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
PseudoCyAntz
2008-10-28 02:18:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by buckeye
:|
:|Buckeye, this is off-thread, but you might enjoy it.
Thanks.
I will check out the link, I hope the letter from Cooper he is
replying to is also there. Otherwise I will have to try and find it.
It will be interesting to see what Cooper described about conditions
in Pa that triggered this response.
Again thanks.
Buckeye, there is a board on the site.
Comments will be seen by me.
I have been playing around in Google Books extensively recently,
and may be able to help. I do not think the Cooper letter is in
the Jefferson ME, btw, but have run into some Adams/Jefferson
exchanges that are, and are somewhat related.

Post questions on the board, and I'll try to help.
It requires a registration with valid email,
but you can use a throw-away. It's an anti-spam method only.
The relevant thread:
<http://tinyurl.com/5ay2m5>
PseudoCyAntz
2008-10-28 02:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by buckeye
Thanks.
I will check out the link, I hope the letter from Cooper he is
replying to is also there. Otherwise I will have to try and find it.
It will be interesting to see what Cooper described about conditions
in Pa that triggered this response.
Again thanks.
Although I generally do not recommend Wikipedia,
I bleieve you have an understanding of its weaknesses,
and will not take it as authoritarian on its own.

Thomas Cooper
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cooper_(US_politician)>
Was an Englishman who expatriated himslef to America with
Joseph Priestly
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Priestley>

I'll poke around my text scanns of the Jefferson (ME),
extract and publish any letters of Jefferson's
to either Cooper or Priestly that I locate.
(give me a couple of days, it's extra-curricular)

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